Comments on: Inspection- On Barack, Hillary and Torture http://ltsaloon.org/archives/3241 A Place to Gather and Talk Tue, 09 Mar 2010 20:41:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Ken Carman http://ltsaloon.org/archives/3241#comment-6163 Ken Carman Sun, 26 Apr 2009 05:30:05 +0000 http://ltsaloon.org/?p=3241#comment-6163 Let me start by admitting, as I already have: I have been wrong before on some of this. And I also admit tis a bit early still. I think when it comes to the following... <blockquote>"Holder has already stated he thinks waterboarding is torture so, in light of the new memos Obama released, it’s obvious he must investigate and prosecute the Bushites for ordering waterboarding, at the least." </blockquote> ...what Holder, or Obama, or Hillary to a somewhat lesser extent since this is more a Holder/Obama dynamic, actually does may not follow the rhetoric or whatever they admit to. Seems pretty obvious none of them has the stomach to actually pursue... especially is you look at the constant barrage of "move forward" comments we have had. I'm curious, has how Hillary performed in her position so far changed your position... or David's... or any of those so bothered by her? Of course, with the understanding, yes, tis early yet to decide. And why is it hard for even me to stifle a Beavis and Butthead snicker when it comes... (there we go again) to using "position" and "performed" and "hard" combined with "Clinton?" Let me start by admitting, as I already have: I have been wrong before on some of this. And I also admit tis a bit early still. I think when it comes to the following…

“Holder has already stated he thinks waterboarding is torture so, in light of the new memos Obama released, it’s obvious he must investigate and prosecute the Bushites for ordering waterboarding, at the least.”

…what Holder, or Obama, or Hillary to a somewhat lesser extent since this is more a Holder/Obama dynamic, actually does may not follow the rhetoric or whatever they admit to. Seems pretty obvious none of them has the stomach to actually pursue… especially is you look at the constant barrage of “move forward” comments we have had.

I’m curious, has how Hillary performed in her position so far changed your position… or David’s… or any of those so bothered by her? Of course, with the understanding, yes, tis early yet to decide. And why is it hard for even me to stifle a Beavis and Butthead snicker when it comes… (there we go again) to using “position” and “performed” and “hard” combined with “Clinton?”

]]> By: RS Janes http://ltsaloon.org/archives/3241#comment-6161 RS Janes Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:18:50 +0000 http://ltsaloon.org/?p=3241#comment-6161 Ken, I agree with most of what you say, but I think if Obama got up tomorrow amd said <em>"We're prosecuting everyone in the Bush Administration who had anything to do with torture,"</em> not only the right-wing media would have a field day dismissing it as a partisan attack, but the Big Media would go along with this message as well. The result would be that any investigations, prosecutions or Congressional panels would go south in a hail of accusations of a partisan witch hunt to settle the score for Clinton's impeachment. Of course that's nonsense, but it might gain traction with the BM and then Bush, Cheney and the rest of the Torture Boys would skate free. Holder has already stated he thinks waternoarding is torture so, in light of the new memos Obama released, it's obvious he must investigate and prosecute the Bushites for ordering waterboarding, at the least. Since the CIA operatives who conducted some of the torture are not being prosecuted, they are free to testify and establish a 'chain of command' to Bush and Cheney, et al, just as Sammy Gravano testified against John Gotti and put him in jail for life. And the polls show that the majority are beginning to demand Congress do something about those who ordered the torture -- even Republicans are now hearing from their constituents on this matter. This is perfect for Obama -- Holder is put in a postition where he must prosecute with the majority of the country behind him, and Obama and the Dems don't come off as pursuing revenge for Bill Clinton. As during the campaign, it seems Obama is playing chess while the GOP plays checkers -- and they're losing at checkers too. Ken, I agree with most of what you say, but I think if Obama got up tomorrow amd said “We’re prosecuting everyone in the Bush Administration who had anything to do with torture,” not only the right-wing media would have a field day dismissing it as a partisan attack, but the Big Media would go along with this message as well.

The result would be that any investigations, prosecutions or Congressional panels would go south in a hail of accusations of a partisan witch hunt to settle the score for Clinton’s impeachment. Of course that’s nonsense, but it might gain traction with the BM and then Bush, Cheney and the rest of the Torture Boys would skate free.

Holder has already stated he thinks waternoarding is torture so, in light of the new memos Obama released, it’s obvious he must investigate and prosecute the Bushites for ordering waterboarding, at the least.

Since the CIA operatives who conducted some of the torture are not being prosecuted, they are free to testify and establish a ‘chain of command’ to Bush and Cheney, et al, just as Sammy Gravano testified against John Gotti and put him in jail for life. And the polls show that the majority are beginning to demand Congress do something about those who ordered the torture — even Republicans are now hearing from their constituents on this matter.

This is perfect for Obama — Holder is put in a postition where he must prosecute with the majority of the country behind him, and Obama and the Dems don’t come off as pursuing revenge for Bill Clinton.

As during the campaign, it seems Obama is playing chess while the GOP plays checkers — and they’re losing at checkers too.

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